Author Topic: San tee off waste line  (Read 845 times)

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Offline Alina.autocadTopic starter

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San tee off waste line
« on: Jun 14, 2018, 02:49:05 PM »
Would it be allowed to use san tee coming off of waste line to a vertical vent line. See screenshot

Offline cadman mike

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #1 on: Jun 14, 2018, 04:49:16 PM »
Yes.  Also acceptable is a combination fitting (sanitary wye + a 45)
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Offline Steadtler

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #2 on: Jun 15, 2018, 02:15:53 AM »
A few reason for not doing it:

A santee laying on it's back is technically part of a waste system (waste flows through it) and as such should be oriented in the vertical only. 

If the vent is used as a cleanout, the entry to the waste system will not be at a desired 45 degrees and subject to increase blockages caused by build-up due to sharp entry edge downstream.

A santee if used underground as proposed, prevents installation of future fixtures such as a bar sink on the vent line.

Unless you have a very good reason for piping it that way, why risk having the inspector flag it as a violation and you end up having to change it -very expensive after the fact.

Use a combo with a quarter bend or come off the side with a rolled wye and short sweep.

 

Offline Steadtler

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #3 on: Jun 15, 2018, 04:17:52 AM »
Oops, I meant use a combo with an eighth bend and off to the side at 45 with a rolled wye and short sweep.

Offline Tstright

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #4 on: Jun 18, 2018, 05:47:50 PM »

Unless you have a very good reason for piping it that way, why risk having the inspector flag it as a violation and you end up having to change it -very expensive after the fact.


Under what code would this be flagged?
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Offline cadbyken

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #5 on: Jun 18, 2018, 06:34:23 PM »

Unless you have a very good reason for piping it that way, why risk having the inspector flag it as a violation and you end up having to change it -very expensive after the fact.


Under what code would this be flagged?
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Offline Steadtler

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #6 on: Jun 18, 2018, 07:16:50 PM »
Under what code would this be flagged?

A better question is: On inspection day, will you have an inspector who will allow a santee to be installed horizontally in a drainage system? Do you have a code book ready which specifically allowis such an installation?

If the inspector tags it and concedes to your argument, will the inspector remember that situation fondly when it comes to overhead inspections?

It comes down to why risk an inspector tagging your project, making you look unprofessional and confrontational as well the possibility of having to spend money and time fixing a situation which shouldn't have been there in the first place.

If I were the inspector, I would tag the installation - the fitting is in a drainage system, regardless of the implied vent branch use, and the vertical to horizontal orientation of the santee is not listed as an approved fitting (UPC).


Offline Gil Navarro

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #7 on: Jun 18, 2018, 07:24:45 PM »
To the OP:
I've been a plumber for 30 years. Yes, what you've shown is an acceptable and common practice. Sometimes referred to as "line venting". As long as the vent stays vertical (45 degrees or more) until it is roughly 40" or so above the floor slab, at which point the vent can turn horizontally. I prefer to use a sweep elbow up, then a sanitary tee for the fixture branch, and carry the vent up off the top of the san tee, but when there is an elevation constrain preventing you to do that, I run it like you've shown.

Offline cadbob

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #8 on: Jun 18, 2018, 08:08:26 PM »
Tin Knocker here, and really have no business butting in :) But what you guy's are describing is sort of like a Sovent System? (Curious)
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Offline dopefish

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #9 on: Jun 21, 2018, 04:16:01 PM »
Steam Fitter here with no business butting in but I will do it anyways. Local codes and authority having jurisdiction always win out in the end. You can pose your question on the interwebs where everyone has an opinion. Or you could send that screen shot to the field foreman and as what their preferred method will be since they are the one doing the work and dealing with the inspector. And maybe ask them about their logic behind it and see if its specific to the area, inspector, personal preference, etc. Lot's of great knowledge locked in the installers brains. Especially plumbers.
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Offline Naysh

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #10 on: Jun 21, 2018, 05:03:13 PM »
Gotta use a combo instead of san tee.  I made that mistake early on when I began detailing and was corrected.

Offline Tstright

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #11 on: Jul 20, 2018, 12:14:37 PM »
To the OP:
I've been a plumber for 30 years. Yes, what you've shown is an acceptable and common practice. Sometimes referred to as "line venting". As long as the vent stays vertical (45 degrees or more) until it is roughly 40" or so above the floor slab, at which point the vent can turn horizontally. I prefer to use a sweep elbow up, then a sanitary tee for the fixture branch, and carry the vent up off the top of the san tee, but when there is an elevation constrain preventing you to do that, I run it like you've shown.

Same here, going on 35yrs as a plumber and the only place I have worked in that is anal about this is San Antonio... There is no reason for a vent to use a long turn fitting.
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Offline cnash

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #12 on: Jul 20, 2018, 01:20:50 PM »
Down here an inspector will flag that every time.
After the combo (that you would place instead of that san tee) then you can stick with short radius fittings on the vent, but that fitting itself is technically still part of the sanitary system.
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Offline Phred

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #13 on: Jul 20, 2018, 02:18:51 PM »
a vent is a vent, if its above the centerline of the pipe at 45, 90 or 135 degrees, as the drain pipe per code is only designed to run only half full. Rogue inspectors need lots of continuing education, and I guess that's our job also. Or let the engineer tell them its ok, then its out of their hands. Every now and then I play that trump card. Who killed the 3/4" dia. scientifically tested and proven plumbing vent size of the 80's. The fitting manufactures and the unions that head up and oversee the code adoption. Think about how much wasted materials and labor the oversized venting has cost. Oh yeah and vents can offset down at another vent riser. Science, facts and truth should rule not government or rule of thumb stupidity. JMO
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Offline Steadtler

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Re: San tee off waste line
« Reply #14 on: Jul 21, 2018, 12:28:05 AM »
OK, let's hear from the OP and finish out this thread:

What did you end up showing and what was your reasoning?
If you kept the santee, did the crew in the field install it per your drawing or did they change it to a combo? 
If they installed the santee, did the inspector flag it?
If it was flagged, did you spend time arguing with the inspector?
If you lost the argument, much time and money was spent to fix it?
If you won the argument, did you still need the engineer to approve it?
If engineer approved it, did he charge you for the extra work he had to do?

The bottom line - just put in the stupid combo and there won't be a problem.