Author Topic: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?  (Read 350 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jaysomlamTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Would you please tell me how to setup a Stiffener with 2 rows of tie rods for center support?  Attached please find an illustration.

In the illustration, you can see there are two rows of tie rods for center support.  Each row has 3 tie rods: 2 for the long side, and 1 for the short side.  In each end of the duct, there are 2 tie rods: 1 for the long side, and 1 for the short side.

Please tell me the key fields that allow this to happen.  Please give me a stiffener that shows how this works if this is possible.

Thanks.

Jaysom

Offline Darren Young

  • Premier Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Hermancon Company LLP
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #1 on: Sep 14, 2018, 08:40:55 PM »
Change the Stiffener Spacing in the Spec.

Offline jaysomlamTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #2 on: Sep 17, 2018, 04:42:25 PM »
Thanks for the explanation.  This means we use "Spacing" to determine the number of tie rods in each row of tie rods, and we use the "Breakpoint" inside the settings of a stiffener to determine the number of rows of tie rods a duct will need.  This works for me.

No I cannot find a way to have 2 tie rods in each row of tie rods for center support, and only 1 rod at each end.  But I believe this is OK with me.

Jaysom

Offline Darren Young

  • Premier Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Hermancon Company LLP
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #3 on: Sep 17, 2018, 06:27:33 PM »
The original graphic I posted shows where to configure how many "Sets" of mid-point rids are needed.

e.g. 60" length duct w/30" spacing will put rods on the ends and 1 set in the middle.   60" length duct w/20" spacing will put 1 set on each and and 2 sets in the middle equally spaced.

The graphic on this reply shows where you'd tell it how many rods are needed per row.

Offline jaysomlamTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #4 on: Sep 17, 2018, 08:29:28 PM »
Hello Darren Young,  I am afraid that I understood this tie rod settings totally wrong.  You are saying these:
1.  The "# Centre Tie Rods" setting in a stiffener is where I should set the number of tie rods across the width/height of a duct.
2.  The "Spacing" setting in a specification is where I should set the number of "sets" (or "rows") of tie rods across the length of a duct.

You are very likely to be correct.  Otherwise, that "# End Tie Rods" setting in a stiffener would have been meaningless.  Thanks for the correction.

Now, I will have to discuss this with our shop.  The existing specifications in our shop are all based on using the length as a way to determine the number of tie rods across the width/height of a duct.  Oh well...

Jaysom

Offline Darren Young

  • Premier Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Hermancon Company LLP
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #5 on: Sep 17, 2018, 10:01:12 PM »
If you need this to change also based on the length, you can create multiple tabs for the lengths like this attached image.

Autodesk's config is doing this only on Fittings (length is based on center line duct length) but you can also do it for straights so that short straights can use different stiffeners based on the length of duct.

Offline jaysomlamTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #6 on: Sep 18, 2018, 01:09:17 PM »
Hello Darren Young, sure I will need to add pages into the specification to account for the different duct length.  I will have to do this anyway.  Thanks.

Seem like one way to get around with the issue that I mentioned in my last message is to add many stiffeners.  I will have to create a different stiffener (with a different number of tie rods across the width/height of the duct) for the different LS of the duct.  This is doable.

Jaysom

Offline jaysomlamTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #7 on: Sep 18, 2018, 06:01:51 PM »
After I have done a number of testing, I wonder if the "Length" field in the "Breakpoints" window of a stiffener really means "duct length".  I have a feeling that this "Length" field actually means the "long size" of the width or the height of a duct.

I have a specification that is based on Single Size and Length.  The specification uses a stiffener called "TR01" that has a breakpoint to specify that a duct should not have any tie rod if its "length" is less than or equal to 36.000", and it should have one rod to support its center if its "length" is longer than 36.000".  Then I add a duct with 36"x16" with 68" finish length.  The duct gets the stiffener "TR01".  But it doesn't get any tie rod (no hole for tie rod).  Then I add another duct with 36.01"x16" with the same 68" finish length.  The second duct also gets the stiffener "TR01".  Moreover, it also gets a tie rod (with holes for the tie rod).  Seem to me that the "Length" in the Breakpoints of a stiffener actually means the "long size" of the width or the height of a duct.

Can someone confirm this or disapprove this?

Jaysom


Offline jaysomlamTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #8 on: Sep 19, 2018, 08:05:24 PM »
After discussing this with another CAMduct user, I get a confirmation that the "Length" field mentioned in the settings of Stiffener (for tie rods) is actually the width and the height of a duct, not its length.

This is actually better this way.

Jaysom

Offline Darren Young

  • Premier Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Hermancon Company LLP
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #9 on: Sep 21, 2018, 10:40:35 PM »
After discussing this with another CAMduct user, I get a confirmation that the "Length" field mentioned in the settings of Stiffener (for tie rods) is actually the width and the height of a duct, not its length.

This is actually better this way.


Correct....think of it as "TieRod Length" not duct length.

Offline jaysomlamTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #10 on: Sep 26, 2018, 04:03:53 PM »
Quote
Correct....think of it as "TieRod Length" not duct length.

I think not.  The length in the breakpoints is "one" side of the duct.  If it was the tie rod length, it would have been the length of "the other"" side of the duct.

Jaysom

Offline Darren Young

  • Premier Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Hermancon Company LLP
Re: Setup a Stiffener with 2 Rows of Tie Rods for Center Support?
« Reply #11 on: Sep 26, 2018, 04:18:20 PM »
You're right. I was thinking of the SPAN breakpoints. Their terminology is not the more intuitive.