Printing Issue: Objects in the link mask MEP Fab Duct and Pipe

[manwich74]

In R2023 and R2024 we just noticed that when we print to PDF using the Bluebeam PDF driver, arch objects in the linked model supersede MEP Fab duct and pipe. In other words, when MEP Fab duct/pipe cross a wall/window/door, the wall/window/door prints on top of the duct/pipe no matter the elevations. I tested with native Revit duct and pipe and there are no issues. See attached.

Within the Revit model, everything on the screen looks fine. See attached.

We went back and looked at several PDFs printed from R2020 and R2022 to confirm and there were no printing issues. We looked at several PDFs printed from R2023 and R2024 we see this problem in all of them.

When we plot direct to the plotter from Revit using the Oce 500 print driver the plots also show this bug. So its not just a Bluebeam PDF print driver issue.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, we'd greatly appreciate any input.

[cnash]

I think we were dealing with a similar issue and noticed it had to do with the Discipline of the view.
You can change the discipline or try to uncheck "Draw MEP Hidden Lines" in the Mechanical Settings menu under Manage > MEP Settings.

[manwich74]

Thanks for the response. Ran a test today in R23, plotting using the Bluebeam 21 driver, as well as just looking at the Print Preview. Multiple scenarios:

- Coordination view, Draw MEP Hidden Lines off
- Coordination view, Draw Hidden Lines on
- Plumbing view, Draw MEP Hidden Lines off
- Plumbing view, Draw MEP Hidden Lines on
- Mechanical view, Draw MEP Hidden Lines off
- Mechanical view, Draw MEP Hidden Lines on

The results show that changing the Discipline to Coordination does help somewhat with this particular issue, but it is not a practical solution as it neuters the benefits of showing/printing of MEP elements by their respective Object Styles.

In the model environment, all graphics behave as would be expected in all scenarios.

In the Print Preview environment and on the PDFs, it fails and walls take precedence in Mechanical and Plumbing disciplines.

This continues to seem like an issue that is MEP Fab Pipe/Duct not playing nice with R23/R24. 

Graphics attached. Pipes at 8' and 5', crossing. Wall: Full height. Cut Plane: 4'-0"

[manwich74]

Just ran another test using only Print Preview.

Discipline: Plumbing
Draw MEP Hidden Lines: Off
Added MEP Fab Ductwork

In the initial rendering of Print Preview, the walls supersede the pipe/duct.
When you Zoom In one, or more times, the re-rendering causes the pipe/duct to behave and supersede the walls.

This is looking more and more like a Revit rendering conflict with MEP Fab pipe/duct.

[craigjonnson]

A feature was introduced "Navigation Redraw" to speed up panning around views. This feature has a basic appearance to items until you zoom into them. This doesn't effect the pdf output.

I've had issues with printing where we overlap RCP views on top of our shop drawings due to not being able to view both rcp layouts and plans at the same time. Depending on how these are placed, should be RCP with the Plans on the top when placing these onto a sheet. If the RCP is placed last, it causes areas of the drawings to be blank similar to what you are describing.

Could this be your case? Do you have multiple views stacked on top of another within your sheets?

[manwich74]

Thanks Craig. No, we do not stack any views.

[manwich74]

I think we were dealing with a similar issue and noticed it had to do with the Discipline of the view.
You can change the discipline or try to uncheck "Draw MEP Hidden Lines" in the Mechanical Settings menu under Manage > MEP Settings.

Thanks. I don't prefer to change the Discipline per the reasons stated above.

I turned off MEP Hidden lines. The printing problem still persists. The initial rendering shows walls superseding duct. Zooming in 1x re-renders and it plots correctly. See attached.

[craigjonnson]

OK, last ditch attempt... Check that the underlay in your properties is set to None.

[dopefish]

Have you tried changing to MS PDF from Bluebeam?

[cadbob]

When BlueBeam fails me I go back to Old School, this is my go to for many years. I always have it installed

https://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp

[manwich74]

I worked with Autodesk to resolve this issue. Revit 2024.2.2 and Revit 2025.2 sort of have it fixed. Revit 2022 and 2023 are still broken. Autodesk may or may not get around to fixing it in these years.

MEP Fab duct and pipe without insulation now behave normally. MEP Fab pipe and duct supersede arch elements. Hooray!

MEP Fab insulated duct and pipe still act weird. The insulation line supersedes the arch elements.  However, if you have any sort of line style override applied (solid line, dashes, whatever) to that system, the line style within the arch element will still supersede that line style within the insulation. (We apply line style overrides for MEP Fab duct/pipe to set colors and/or dashes for CW, HW, RHW, and Vents.)

Our working solution is to make an insulation filter and its set transparency to 40%. When the arch element supersedes the pipe/duct line style, its not so obnoxious looking.

See attached jpgs for examples.

Thanks to everyone that tried to help.

[manwich74]

OK, last ditch attempt... Check that the underlay in your properties is set to None.

Checked. Not the issue.
Thanks.

[manwich74]

Have you tried changing to MS PDF from Bluebeam?

Tried it. Did not solve the issue.
Thanks.

[manwich74]

When BlueBeam fails me I go back to Old School, this is my go to for many years. I always have it installed

https://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp

Tried it. Did not solve problem
Thanks.