Large End to Small End Round Fittings

[cyan]

Considering I've seen this issue at more than one place, I'm sure this has been asked before and my search skills have been found lacking.

For this, I apologize. I'm going to ask anyway.

You've got some gored round elbows or offsets and one end needs to be bead and crimp while the other raw. Pretty standard situation. It would be preferable to only input one "diameter" into the fitting (so something like CID 61) and then just have a connector for BC and one for Raw. The shop knows to crimp the one side.

However, the shop eventually requests that the bead and crimp side be undersized a little bit to facilitate the fit. No problem, you can either set the connector to Diameter Adjust, or Effective Diameter that automatically makes that adjustment for you (in respectively different ways, granted).

However, Diameter Adjust on the BC end but not the raw end will cause invalid geometry, because the elbow sees two different diameters on a fitting that can only use one diameter. I'm less familiar with effective diameter, but it seems to allow both connectors, but it assumes the actual diameter for the whole fitting based on the first end?

For now, there's a BC and a BC raw connector that we have. The former does the diameter adjust and the latter doesn't. But I could write a script that recognizes the existence of a BC raw fitting and it will:
- LoadFamily and replace with a reducing version of the fitting
- Swap BC raw on end one to just BC, now that it is on a pattern that can make the whole thing work.

OR, I can avoid writing yet-another black box script that obfuscates all institutional knowledge and try to find a software configuration that handles it better. Hence, this post. Any help is appreciated.

[aleschper]

Have tried a reducing bend with the second end set to in the pattern to equal the first end and the connectors making the size change?
I haven't tried it, but in theory that should work.

[cyan]

Yeah, it probably will need to come down to using the reducing pattern. The way you suggest using it is quite a bit better than what I was thinking. Cheers man.

[AN-detail]

We just use effective diameter, one connector pipe size, the other crimp. C1/C2 doesn't matter, whole fitting is built pipe size. [Edited: misspoke] Are saying that the crimp is not enough to fit into pipe size so they want you to reduce it?

[cyan]

We just use effective diameter, one connector pipe size, the other crimp. C1/C2 doesn't matter, whole fitting is built pipe size

So you have one connector with a crimped effective diameter, and another for pipe size.

Change one side to crimped, the other side to not crimped, hit develop, measure the stretchout.

Reverse the connectors, hit develop, same stretchout?

Are saying that the crimp is not enough to fit into pipe size so they want you to reduce it?

No, it fits. They are looking for more consistency than what Diameter Adjust provides. Which is how this database was setup when I got to it. So there was a specific connector Crimp to Raw that I'm looking to get rid of, because it has no diameter adjust nor effective diameter. So it purely fits due to crimpage and is far less effective than the normal Crimp connector when we're not fighting with inconsistent body size.

[cyan]

Have tried a reducing bend with the second end set to in the pattern to equal the first end and the connectors making the size change?
I haven't tried it, but in theory that should work.

This works. Nice thinking.

I'm going to be a little stubborn and wait to make sure that I can't use the proper pattern for elbows and offsets that do not change size and have an inner radius dimension, but this is a good fallback.

Edit: I think the biggest drawback here is that a unique item for small end to large end elbows isn't good. Also not fantastic to make it so that every gored elbow we ever draw is coming from the reducing pattern, even if it doesn't look that way on the surface.

That just has a smell to it. You know? Although if I can't find anything better, that is probably going to be the compromise.

[AN-detail]

So you have one connector with a crimped effective diameter, and another for pipe size.

I'm sorry, at second glance, I got it wrong, we don't use Effective Diameter at all. We use Diameter Adjust on our small end, none on crimp. All reduction comes at the crimping machine. Sorry if I had you chasing your tail on that one.

[cyan]

Nah, no worries. I double checked one more time but didn't get too lost over it.

[Mtt849]

Simply make a BE "Big end" connector and adjust the bead & crimp. Then set diameter adjustment to match the big end connector and the stretch out is correct.

[Mtt849]

Revit / Evolve Example

[cyan]

There were really two problems here.

Crimp connectors in the database I was adjusting had a negative diameter adjust on them. I am still looking at a convenient way to have a small end connector, like slip end, that can have a large end on the other side. But that is appearing to be best handled with a reducing pattern and some part configurations.

Meanwhile, yeah, crimp connectors should match large ends and if they need to be small, that's why they get crimped.