Coordination & Design > Services Coordination & Design

Aren't we Modelers?

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tombon:
This is a quiet topic.  Kind of odd when you consider all the buzz about this "new" process - Building Information Modeling.  IsnĀ“t that what we have been doing forever?

cadbyken:
You are right in a way but I look at it this way.  The mechanical drawings are "conceptual" where they have modeled the building.  In the real world, we (the mechanical contractors) take that less than perfect concept and make it work by doing the coordination they should have done at the begining.  Another way to look at it is this, like the BASF commercials, we do not make (design) the buildings, we make the buildings better (actually work).  Just my 2 cents worth.

badastinner:
Amen brother!~!  I've been told several times by engineers and architect that thier drawing are schematic in nature and only give route and size.  Then I say give me single line drawings if i have to make it all fit anyway.  But then every time i change something or say something doesn't fit they always want to question and refer back to their 2-d schematic only drawings.  JMHO :)

cadbyken:
I am not sure how it is in other regions but some the engineer's drawings are really poor.  I currently have a fast pace job, elementary schoo, where they are coming out of the ground as I draw.  The problem is that the engineer routed 14" ductwork and there is literally only 5 1/2" between the steel and lights!  Even if we dropped the ceilings to 8'-0" it wouldn't fit.  Now they have to decide real quick if they are going to add 2 more blocks around the one building.  On another building, the engineer routed 24" deep duct where only an 18" deep duct will go.  Problem there is that the mechanical room doesn't have enough space to get the ductwork out like they originally showed.  Guess who has to redesign the system and get it to work with the likely hood of no extra money?  I guess it is my fault since I took the job knowing who the engineer was (tried to get extra $$$ because but was turned down).  They have really messed up two other jobs that I worked on.  Can't wait until I get into a meeting with these clowns one day.

nbkwbn1:
I changed jobs two years ago, to a company that does design-build, (versus using engineering & mech contracting firms separately), and we still have these problems. I just finished re-routing storm leaders that penetrated the outside walls directly over outside air intakes. The goofiest part was that this design that put the storm line scuppers directly over the OA louvers was a re-design itself. After all the architectural professionals and our engineers did their best, I knew it was a non-starter after looking at the schematic drawing for five seconds. I guess it really boils down to practical application, like Ken describes. If you've actually installed duct/ pipe in the field, you'd never come up with unworkable design in the first place

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