Author Topic: Problematic Jobs and additional costs/services  (Read 14092 times)

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Offline cjehly

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Problematic Jobs and additional costs/services
« Reply #15 on: Feb 09, 2008, 15:05:37 PM »
Well I think its a perfect analogy.  It happens a lot with national firms.
-Chris-

Offline andrei_arvee

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Problematic Jobs and additional costs/services
« Reply #16 on: Sep 03, 2009, 21:26:36 PM »
your problem its not big comparing to mine, the duct passing thru bottom of beam and the false ceiling is also under the beam with same elevation therefore i raise an RFI to the gencon that to inform them that duct cannot past thru it. let the gencon deside if they told you to resize the duct or they will increase the available space for the duct. if they will said resize the duct so it mean change order so you will get some money for that.dont let put the problem in your hand just past it to the other so that they will not blame you for the cause of delay of design.

Offline rodcad

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« Reply #17 on: Jan 11, 2011, 10:36:56 AM »
Ken,
In my experience 9 times out of ten it comes down to how the conflicts and resolutions are presented to the team. There is the rare beast where they simply won't pay you and you are stuck with finishing the project, but most GC's that I have dealt with are reasonable and if you show them the design won't  work and accompany that with an RFI, you should be able to attach costs to it down the road. I've been told that in court if systems have to move more than 12" or so then legally it's a change.

Offline tombon

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« Reply #18 on: Oct 21, 2011, 20:05:35 PM »
Quote from: ScottieM
Are you an engineer? Probably not. Only with a reasonable effort do you need to make changes to make things work. If you start redesigning the duct to much and add equipment where not shown; you are then changing the engineers design. Which leads back to the opening question, are you an engineer?  .

The Society of Fire Protection Engineers prepared the following position statement to explain the relative roles of a consuling engineer who prepares a design drawing and a draftsman who prepares a shop drawing.  It is an interesting and concise statement from the perspective of the engineering community.  I believe that the same principles apply to every discipline/craft..

"Legally, the practice of engineering is a responsibility that cannot be delegated.  The role of the technician is to understand the engineer´s design intent and help implement that design...Engineers or technicians overstep their roles if they participate in aspects of designs for which they are not qualified by education or experience..."
-Tom

Offline ScottieM

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Problematic Jobs and additional costs/services
« Reply #19 on: Oct 24, 2011, 13:20:50 PM »
I imagine that RFI´s and change orders are a sore spot for a lot of us in the current environment. Unfortunately it´s a market of attrition right now for all of us, engineers, architects and subs. If you´re biding bottom line, you´d be lucky to get a job.
 It seems that A&E´s are pushing more of the LOD300 (AIA standards- Level Of Detail E202) to the subs, and we´re not getting paid for it to protect their bottom line, as it is now called coordination.

My thoughts, (yes they´re cheap).
If you have a team digging a ditch using shovels and picks, and you find out that the route is impossible when you´re halve-way done because of bad design, you´d expect to be paid for work done and a change order for new work to be done.

If you have a backhoe gigging a ditch, and you find that the route is impossible when you´re halve-way done because of bad design, you´d expect to be paid for work done and a change order for new work to be done.

If you have a model to show where to dig a ditch, and you find that the route is impossible when you´re halve-way done because of bad design, you´d expect to be paid for work done and a change order for new work to be done.

This is all stems from sales, Over Sold/ Under Delivered. Everyone is selling that BIM eliminates change orders and fixes all the problems on paper, (model). We who use BIM models know that the problems don´t go way; they just become cheaper to fix. As stated earlier, in an attrition market, people are cutting cost just to make even. As subs, we´re at the end of the line; no more room to push the cost to someone else.

We're seeing more people starting to question if BIM is worth it. "It seemed easier before," is a common quote.
Scott M.
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Offline Zorg

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Re: Problematic Jobs and additional costs/services
« Reply #20 on: Nov 22, 2013, 05:36:45 AM »
I feel your pain, truly. This is something I face on a daily basis, and often end us a hand holder to the builder and the consulting engineer.

We are given a design from most 'respectable' consulting engineers who then wash their hands with it once their drawings are issued for 'contract'. It is then up to us to finish any design and make it work, that includes services that don't fit because it is then labelled a coordination issue.  :o
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Offline VirtualPilot

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Re: Problematic Jobs and additional costs/services
« Reply #21 on: Nov 22, 2013, 15:11:34 PM »
Ken, for your amusement... read the attached contract form I found eons ago... is funny reading...  :-D
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