Fabrication hanger setup for Revit

[bitterfitter]

My understanding is that to control the rod diameter on a trapeze hanger in Revit, I have to use the Ancillary kit?  I can't see how else I would upsize the rod diameters if needed.  That being said, how are you folks on here setting up your trapeze hangers?  Do you just make one ITM called RECTANGULAR BEARER and then choose the material and rod diameter by using a product list by size in the ITM?  I have been doing this way differently in Fabrication all this time.  I use different ITMs for each material and different support specs for each rod size.  Worked pretty well I thought; pick your trapeze and place on the pipe.  It would default to the most common diameter rod size.  You could then change the support spec to change the rod size if needed.
If we have to use ancillary kits to change the rod size and material, this could get ugly pretty fast I think.
Can you folks share how you setup and control your trapeze materials and rod sizes in Revit??  Please

[rtlflat]

For trapeze in Revit, we are using support specs to drive rod size and standard washer and nut counts. Separate ITMs for 1/2", 3/8", and 5/8" rods, and another using gripple cables.

No product list necessary for trapeze. just set options to Pipework = No and Oversized = Yes and Use Support Settings = Yes.

Support specs should include:
Ancillary Materials: Strut (Apply to Bearer)
Support Rods: quantity 1 (Revit automatically doubles for 2 rod supports like trapeze)
Fixings: Hex nuts (quantities for single rod)
Clips: Square and/or flat washers (quantities for single rod)

Apply the support spec to the ITM properties (See attached image)

The ancillary kits are used for overriding rod size, changing nut/bolt counts and sizes, and adding various inserts (bluebangers, beam attachments, etc). Don't define the ancillary material for the strut bearer in the kits. That is defined in the support specs and the kits override rods only.

[bitterfitter]

Thanks for sharing how you are setting these up.  So it looks like you are setting everything up in the support spec itself except for the upper attachments which you are doing in ancillary kits.  I got that.  Now I have to ask if you are using separate itm's for each rod size, how do you pick your different bearers?  Do you have different itm's for each bearer type/size and per rod size?
Say I want to draw a trapeze with 1 5/8" strut with 1/2" rods; then I pick that button for that itm.  If I want a 2 1/2" x 1/4" angle trapeze with 5/8" rods; is that a separate button also?

[rtlflat]

We default to 1/2" rod for strut trapeze and just have additional ITMs for 3/8" and 5/8" rods.

We don't use ITMs for angle or box tube trapeze anymore because we weld strut to the sides of angle or box tube bearer so size would not be accurate. We use parametric families with nested components for these types of trapeze.

Are you opposed to setting up separate ITMs for bearer material or rod size? We save the ITMs in different folders based on rod size, which allows us to have the same ITM names regardless of rod size. Much cleaner then having "1_2 Rod" or "3_8 Rod" or similar at the end of each ITM name. Then you can either have separate buttons for each, or stack all rod sizes into a button for each bearer type. Separate buttons may be best if you are using an addin for hanger population though.

[cnash]

This issue has recently come to our attention. Is there a specific reason why Trapeze hangers do not adhere to the Hanger Specifications in the same way as other hangers?

It seems the common workaround is to create separate ITMs for each rod size. However, I wanted to confirm if this is the standard approach and explore whether there are alternative solutions to minimize the potential for user error when assigning rod sizes.

[PipeFitter72]

We use trapeze with support specs, then just override with ancillary rod kits when needed. for instance if I use a trapeze to support multiple pipes. or have a trapeze with hangers dropping out the bottom.

[cnash]

We use trapeze with support specs, then just override with ancillary rod kits when needed. for instance if I use a trapeze to support multiple pipes. or have a trapeze with hangers dropping out the bottom.

How is Revit interacting with the Support Specs? I can't seem to get it to work with Trapeze hangers.

[bobcat09]

We use trapeze with support specs, then just override with ancillary rod kits when needed. for instance if I use a trapeze to support multiple pipes. or have a trapeze with hangers dropping out the bottom.

How is Revit interacting with the Support Specs? I can't seem to get it to work with Trapeze hangers.

We have a trapeze hanger for every rod size and angle size. We use the supports to define all the ancillaries (angle,rod,nuts/bolts,top fixings), supports are not the same as an ancillary kit. You can't modify any of this in Revit but Revit will report this data out if it's assigned. CID 1238, User Support Settings=Yes and assigning the correct support to the Support #1 under item properties. Set qty to 1, this will give you the correct rod qty and length.

[cnash]

Ah, so you're using a separate support spec based on the type of trapeze. I see.
I was hoping we could drive the trapeze by a single support spec like we do for other hangers.

[bobcat09]

Ah, so you're using a separate support spec based on the type of trapeze. I see.
I was hoping we could drive the trapeze by a single support spec like we do for other hangers.

Correct. We define what hanger gets used inside the actual support spec tool we use inside of Revit. We can use that to define hangers based off pipe/duct size if needed. We don't try to drive the rod size via the support setting like we do for clevis hangers.

I'd have to test it out trying to setup the support setting based off the pipe size similar to how we drive our clevis hangers. Can't say I've been asked to try that but I would assume it works the same.

[cnash]

I'd have to test it out trying to setup the support setting based off the pipe size similar to how we drive our clevis hangers. Can't say I've been asked to try that but I would assume it works the same.

I've tried but it doesn't seem to work.
To be honest, I thought it was working all this time until it was recently brought to my attention that it wasn't which is why I am digging into it now.

[bobcat09]

Ah, so you're using a separate support spec based on the type of trapeze. I see.
I was hoping we could drive the trapeze by a single support spec like we do for other hangers.

I just ran a quick test in 2023 revit and it's assigning the correct data based off the support setting breakpoints. Not seeing anything out of line. What issues are you seeing? 

[cnash]

I just ran a quick test in 2023 revit and it's assigning the correct data based off the support setting breakpoints. Not seeing anything out of line. What issues are you seeing? 

Well... I typed up a whole scenario which I have tested a few times over the last week, and I figured I would give it one more shot in 2024... And it seems to work now. Interesting.

So, I guess disregard everything I've said. hahahah!