tombon
Fine Fellow
 From: North Jersey
Registered: 20-January-2006
Posts: 38
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This is a quiet topic. Kind of odd when you consider all the buzz about this “new” process - Building Information Modeling. Isn’t that what we have been doing forever?
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-Tom
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| 30-March-2007 03:12:06 |
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cadbyken
Sleep....it is over-rated
 From: Deltona, FL
Registered: 18-March-2006
Posts: 2719
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You are right in a way but I look at it this way. The mechanical drawings are "conceptual" where they have modeled the building. In the real world, we (the mechanical contractors) take that less than perfect concept and make it work by doing the coordination they should have done at the begining. Another way to look at it is this, like the BASF commercials, we do not make (design) the buildings, we make the buildings better (actually work). Just my 2 cents worth.
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Sometimes I feel like Obi Wan "Use the search function Newbie" but I am probably more like Jar Jar Binks
Helpful hints: http://www.xtracad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3187
AutoCAD 2009: CAD Duct 2.37.163, Lock 16 <-- Old School 
Newer Computer (AMD Phenom II X4, 3.62 Ghz, 8GB Ram, Windows 7 64 bit, 1 GB video
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| 30-March-2007 17:35:56 |
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badastinner
Sheet Metal Coordinator
 From: St. Louis MO
Registered: 17-July-2006
Posts: 79
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Amen brother!~! I've been told several times by engineers and architect that thier drawing are schematic in nature and only give route and size. Then I say give me single line drawings if i have to make it all fit anyway. But then every time i change something or say something doesn't fit they always want to question and refer back to their 2-d schematic only drawings. JMHO 
Last edited by badastinner (02-February-2008 15:24:41)
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Arron
The Murphy Company Mechanical Contractors and Engineers
What the ___? Where did everything go?
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| 02-February-2008 15:21:14 |
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cadbyken
Sleep....it is over-rated
From: Deltona, FL
Registered: 18-March-2006
Posts: 2719
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I am not sure how it is in other regions but some the engineer's drawings are really poor. I currently have a fast pace job, elementary schoo, where they are coming out of the ground as I draw. The problem is that the engineer routed 14" ductwork and there is literally only 5 1/2" between the steel and lights! Even if we dropped the ceilings to 8'-0" it wouldn't fit. Now they have to decide real quick if they are going to add 2 more blocks around the one building. On another building, the engineer routed 24" deep duct where only an 18" deep duct will go. Problem there is that the mechanical room doesn't have enough space to get the ductwork out like they originally showed. Guess who has to redesign the system and get it to work with the likely hood of no extra money? I guess it is my fault since I took the job knowing who the engineer was (tried to get extra $$$ because but was turned down). They have really messed up two other jobs that I worked on. Can't wait until I get into a meeting with these clowns one day.
I think I am going to start another thread to ask a question in regards to this.
Here it is:
http://www.xtracad.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 3774#23774
Last edited by cadbyken (03-February-2008 00:05:45)
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Sometimes I feel like Obi Wan "Use the search function Newbie" but I am probably more like Jar Jar Binks
Helpful hints: http://www.xtracad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3187
AutoCAD 2009: CAD Duct 2.37.163, Lock 16 <-- Old School
Newer Computer (AMD Phenom II X4, 3.62 Ghz, 8GB Ram, Windows 7 64 bit, 1 GB video
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| 02-February-2008 23:47:44 |
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NBKWBN1
Active Member
Registered: 06-March-2009
Posts: 5
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I changed jobs two years ago, to a company that does design-build, (versus using engineering & mech contracting firms separately), and we still have these problems. I just finished re-routing storm leaders that penetrated the outside walls directly over outside air intakes. The goofiest part was that this design that put the storm line scuppers directly over the OA louvers was a re-design itself. After all the architectural professionals and our engineers did their best, I knew it was a non-starter after looking at the schematic drawing for five seconds. I guess it really boils down to practical application, like Ken describes. If you've actually installed duct/ pipe in the field, you'd never come up with unworkable design in the first place
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| 27-December-2009 16:21:32 |
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Bobby T
Senior Member
From: Franklin, TN
Registered: 03-October-2008
Posts: 143
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AMEN to all. We are a DB firm, and ru into problems like these on plan spec jobs all the time. A lot of the issue lies within the building design itself. Architects want to give you NO ROOm for essential services. Someday maybe we can put water heaters, air handlers and the like in invisible room son the street in front of the building. I guess that will be the 7th or 8th dimension.
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Dell T3400 Windows 7, 64 bit, Autocad 2010, CAD-MECH 2.40.52 Lock 19
Formal education will make you a living. Self education will make you a fortune.
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| 13-May-2010 21:26:31 |
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Tin_Knockers
Duct Monkey
 From: Nor-Cal
Registered: 07-April-2006
Posts: 469
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All the good engineers are in Dubai. This is what's left! 
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Gabe
Version 2.38.089 / AutoCAD MEP 2009
Support bacteria .......
It's the only culture some people have!
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| 13-May-2010 21:41:42 |
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Tstright
Coordination Manager
 From: Central Maryland
Registered: 08-September-2007
Posts: 244
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Modeler? I would say No.
Modelers create something that may or may not work.
We're Coordinators that take a Model or Design and Coordinate it for Code and to fit within the space allowed.....
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"Only the Skilled Survive"
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| 04-June-2010 11:59:34 |
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VirtualPilot
Virtual Pilot
 From: Memphis, TN
Registered: 30-August-2006
Posts: 3422
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Tin_Knockers wrote:
All the good engineers are in Dubai. This is what's left! |
Also in Abu Dhabi... seen the documentary of the Round Skyscraper?
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Santos Cedeno CAD/BIM Mgr - DIXIE Metal Products
REL 2.40.52 SP1 {19}
DELL T7500 - Dual Quad Core Xeon 2.26GHz - 6GB RAM - 1GB nVidia Quadro FX3800 - 80GB OS Drive - 320GB Data Drive - W7Ux64 - MEP2010 - NAVIS 2010
ALIENWARE M17-R1 - Core 2 Duo T9400 2.53GHz - 4GB RAM - 32GB Solid State OS Drive - 100GB Data Drive - (2) ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3870 - W7Px64 - MEP2010 - NAVIS 2010
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| 04-June-2010 12:58:32 |
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