watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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Can anyone explain the offset rules in design line to me? I have the manual from UGM from 2 years ago. It has a little blurb on it, but it is a bit vague.
The instructions say:
Specify the size condition which defines the proper application of the desired offset fitting.
Condition options include:
1. Less than or equal to "value"
2. Less than or equal to "Depth + value"
3. Less than or equal to "width" + "value"
what is this "value"? Is that the amount of the offset? the length of the fitting? The width or depth?
Help!
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| 29-December-2009 17:48:38 |
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cadbyken
Sleep....it is over-rated
 From: Deltona, FL
Registered: 18-March-2006
Posts: 2719
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I believe the value refers to the difference between the two objects. As an example, if you had an offset down of 6" when the duct is 14" deep. This would be where an offset/ogee might be used. The Depth + value would be where elbows may be used. Width, of course, would be an offset visiable in the plan view.
_______________________________________
Sometimes I feel like Obi Wan "Use the search function Newbie" but I am probably more like Jar Jar Binks
Helpful hints: http://www.xtracad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3187
AutoCAD 2009: CAD Duct 2.37.163, Lock 16 <-- Old School 
Newer Computer (AMD Phenom II X4, 3.62 Ghz, 8GB Ram, Windows 7 64 bit, 1 GB video
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| 29-December-2009 17:53:25 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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so, what you are saying is that if I have a 10" round duct that is offsetting up 4", I should be able to put 4 in as the value and it will put the offset in?
because i tried that, I also tried putting 14" in there? neither one worked.
When it asks for the button code, does it mean the generic button code, such as "Offset" or does it what I have put on the button mapping for that fitting, ex: "XOFF"?
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| 29-December-2009 18:02:12 |
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cadbyken
Sleep....it is over-rated
From: Deltona, FL
Registered: 18-March-2006
Posts: 2719
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It comes down to what your standards are really. How do you know when to use an offset or two elbows? This, of course, will be different depending on the depth or width of the duct.
I haven't played much with the designline but I knoow setting up the conditions/button mapping is one of the more tedious parts of it.
_______________________________________
Sometimes I feel like Obi Wan "Use the search function Newbie" but I am probably more like Jar Jar Binks
Helpful hints: http://www.xtracad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3187
AutoCAD 2009: CAD Duct 2.37.163, Lock 16 <-- Old School
Newer Computer (AMD Phenom II X4, 3.62 Ghz, 8GB Ram, Windows 7 64 bit, 1 GB video
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| 29-December-2009 18:20:40 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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Well thanks for trying to help anyway! Is there anyone out there who has this part of design line set up? Maybe you could share a screen shot? Maybe even someone from TSI could help me?
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| 29-December-2009 18:23:54 |
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cadbyken
Sleep....it is over-rated
From: Deltona, FL
Registered: 18-March-2006
Posts: 2719
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You could call suppor. That is what they are there for.
_______________________________________
Sometimes I feel like Obi Wan "Use the search function Newbie" but I am probably more like Jar Jar Binks
Helpful hints: http://www.xtracad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3187
AutoCAD 2009: CAD Duct 2.37.163, Lock 16 <-- Old School
Newer Computer (AMD Phenom II X4, 3.62 Ghz, 8GB Ram, Windows 7 64 bit, 1 GB video
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| 29-December-2009 19:10:57 |
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bparrell
Senior Member
 From: So-CAL
Registered: 25-August-2004
Posts: 5678
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| 29-December-2009 19:16:42 |
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bparrell
Senior Member
From: So-CAL
Registered: 25-August-2004
Posts: 5678
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This is straight from their build
_______________________________________
LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE HOLIDAYS BOB 
MEP 2011(18x64) 2.38.218(lok 19)WIN 7 O.S
Arch/MEP Revit 2011
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| 29-December-2009 19:34:28 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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In button mappings under button code, when I try to put a new one in, it does not give me an option of typing something new in like "TWO45BENDS"
Also, the less than or = to 24, is that 24"set? Or length? or round size?
Sorry for being so dense here, but I am just not getting it.
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| 29-December-2009 20:04:39 |
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Jeremy@apollo
Senior Member
 From: Coquitlam,BC
Registered: 24-January-2008
Posts: 254
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Are you logged in as Admin?
_______________________________________
Autocad Mech 2010
Cadduct 2.38.218
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| 29-December-2009 20:13:47 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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| 29-December-2009 20:17:06 |
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bparrell
Senior Member
From: So-CAL
Registered: 25-August-2004
Posts: 5678
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I ask this question at the UGM....not to a Map Rep but to a user,and he stated ? as i have forgotten.Best thing to do is mess with it.Someone will chime in here.
_______________________________________
LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE HOLIDAYS BOB
MEP 2011(18x64) 2.38.218(lok 19)WIN 7 O.S
Arch/MEP Revit 2011
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| 29-December-2009 20:38:01 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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I see a lot of people reading the post, please reply if you know the answer!
I have been messing with it. I get the annotating to at least ask for an offset, but it doesn't put one in there. I checked the button mapping and button code and they match and it should work, but doesn't... Help!
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| 29-December-2009 20:43:58 |
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bparrell
Senior Member
From: So-CAL
Registered: 25-August-2004
Posts: 5678
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Dumb question.It's not excluded is it?.If not do you what two 45s or and ogee to fill in.It will not put the 45s in if it can't make the throats that are by default in your template
_______________________________________
LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE HOLIDAYS BOB
MEP 2011(18x64) 2.38.218(lok 19)WIN 7 O.S
Arch/MEP Revit 2011
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| 29-December-2009 20:51:11 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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no it is not excluded. neither one of those options work for a round offset... :-(
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| 29-December-2009 20:58:36 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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okay, here is something weird... If the amount of the offset equals exactly what I have set as a default for the offset then it draws one. If it is 24"long and 6"set and I draw a design line with a 6 inch set it works, if i only want a 5 inch set it doesn't....Should I be using a different pattern? I have all those fields unlocked on the default fitting.
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| 29-December-2009 21:07:36 |
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bparrell
Senior Member
From: So-CAL
Registered: 25-August-2004
Posts: 5678
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Speaking of rectangular.So you want to Round 45 to fill?
_______________________________________
LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE HOLIDAYS BOB
MEP 2011(18x64) 2.38.218(lok 19)WIN 7 O.S
Arch/MEP Revit 2011
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| 29-December-2009 21:08:34 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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no if the set is less than 6" I would like it to use pattern 68, round offset, then go to 45's and pipe.
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| 29-December-2009 21:12:00 |
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bparrell
Senior Member
From: So-CAL
Registered: 25-August-2004
Posts: 5678
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Something like this
_______________________________________
LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE HOLIDAYS BOB
MEP 2011(18x64) 2.38.218(lok 19)WIN 7 O.S
Arch/MEP Revit 2011
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| 29-December-2009 21:22:40 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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yes! except when i do it, it doesn't work....
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| 29-December-2009 21:26:55 |
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bparrell
Senior Member
From: So-CAL
Registered: 25-August-2004
Posts: 5678
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You have the offset an angle unlocked in dimensions?I use 68 also
_______________________________________
LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE HOLIDAYS BOB
MEP 2011(18x64) 2.38.218(lok 19)WIN 7 O.S
Arch/MEP Revit 2011
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| 29-December-2009 21:35:00 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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yes it is unlocked, sigh....I am on 2.38.174 version, could that matter?
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| 29-December-2009 21:38:37 |
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bparrell
Senior Member
From: So-CAL
Registered: 25-August-2004
Posts: 5678
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Possible.Try this.Draw the run with the 5" set and revdesign it.Erase the 3d and re-fill
_______________________________________
LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE HOLIDAYS BOB
MEP 2011(18x64) 2.38.218(lok 19)WIN 7 O.S
Arch/MEP Revit 2011
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| 29-December-2009 21:45:53 |
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watsonidis
Senior Member
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: 04-March-2006
Posts: 64
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i did that and got some really weird stuff. The offset went to the side instead of down. Then it put a little piece of pipe going 90 degrees up. I think my design line has a screw loose.
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| 29-December-2009 21:58:30 |
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Chris
Senior Member
Registered: 04-February-2004
Posts: 268
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Offset rules explained:
The breakpoints apply to the total length of line between adjacent "Bend" nodes.
The "Value" is deliberately generically named: as it can be an absolute length or a multiplier of the working width or working depth.
So, you can create a list of breakpoint lengths that are either absolute lengths or relative to the working width or depth.
There is an overlap where bend-to-bend lines will be converted into an "offset" node - in which case breakpoints do not apply.
The offset rules are applied in the order that they are entered in the service database. Any breakpoint that is satisfied will attempt to use the button code alongside that breakpoint.
Take note that an "Offset" node applies to the length of the deviation - within the working width & depth. Where the deviation in the width is less than the width & the deviation in the depth is less than the depth. Also, this also only applies to lines that have a total length less than approx 4xWorking width.
Of course disabling the "soft suppress" of any "offset" line & making it "User unsuppressed" should create bend nodes again.
Sounds complicated - but much simpler if you test the different rules
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| 11-January-2010 17:02:46 |
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Andy Robins
Head of Development
 Registered: 08-October-2003
Posts: 2138
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would you care to explain the terms working width and working depth!
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| 23-January-2010 17:07:01 |
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Chris
Senior Member
Registered: 04-February-2004
Posts: 268
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working width and working depth ... means the dims as calculated or otherwise on the line into the offset.
So if the dims are different through the offset-type node the 'working width' is the width of the line into the offset.
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| 03-February-2010 13:48:23 |
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bparrell
Senior Member
From: So-CAL
Registered: 25-August-2004
Posts: 5678
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Chris wrote:
Of course disabling the "soft suppress" of any "offset" line & making it "User unsuppressed" should create bend nodes again.
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Ok I have a line that has 2 bends as Anno and I want to use the offset rules...so reversing this statement (setting the lines to soft suppress) should have given me offset nodes.Nope
I take it the offset rules only apply to an offset node....Is this correct?
_______________________________________
LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE HOLIDAYS BOB
MEP 2011(18x64) 2.38.218(lok 19)WIN 7 O.S
Arch/MEP Revit 2011
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| 16-July-2010 20:05:32 |
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Chris
Senior Member
Registered: 04-February-2004
Posts: 268
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Offset rules applies to lines between 2 "Bend" nodes.
Design line will automatically suppress lines that effectively offset less than the working width (&/or depth) - unless you have forced "user unsuppressed" on that particular line.
In answer to your question: no, "offset rules" never apply to "offset" nodes.
It is confusing: feel free to call the offset rules something different
Last edited by Chris (31-August-2010 12:27:16)
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| 31-August-2010 12:21:35 |
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